Ladies, ladies,
Its not that the men only want us in the kitchen, they prefer we stay in the bedroom as well. But ladies the truth of the matter is they are frightened of us. The average male know very well that to go against a women in any aspect of the world he has to come three times as strong to come close to winning; you notice I did not say he will win. Our strong will, open heart, caring and our contribution to the world make us very intimidating. They know we know their way of thinking, which can be scary at times. Look around the world do you think if women had been in charge from the beginning all the wars, hatred, killing would have happened, NO. A man will kill his brother over a piece of chicken wing where as a woman will simply share it with her sister so why should we even care if they prefer we stay away from the listserv.
The female creature is the most power creature in the world and they know it. Who else can do what we do? Not another creature. Who else can bleed for 5 days and not fall over and die, not a man, he will die. Who do you know can carry another living creature inside of them for 9 months and still live to tell her story, again not a man, if a man had to go thru one hour of labor pain, the world would have only 10 persons in it? Who else do you know can work 8 hours outside of the home, another 8 hours in the home and still never let them forget they are men when the lights goes out, not a man. We all know when they get home, the only thing on their minds are food, TV and bed.
Ladies, like my grandmother always say, there are always more then one way to skin a cat. If we feel strongly they do not want us to participate on those listserv by the treatment we receive from them, then by all means, we can build our own “female only” listserv. And to really get our point across to them, we will give them “view only” access to the site. This way, they can read about the great and important things women have to say but they will not be allowed to participate. Let me know ladies and I will start working on it this weekend!
Wait a minute, why are we waiting for them to “let” us write anyway? Ladies, write whatever you want to write, I do. I have no intension of letting anyone stop me but God. If they don’t like what I have to say, click the delete key its that simple, but please don’t stop writing because if you do, then they got what they wanted.
As I was writing this, a thought came to mind, “what would the world be like without women?” It was so ugly; I had to quickly erase it completely out of my head……that was a scary thought…..never again should I think of that, never!!!
Be blessed and have a great weekend.
Roberta
Tuesday, November 18, 2008
female creature is the most power creature in the world
Thursday, November 6, 2008
When you think your life is bad, read this and count your blessing!
I was walking around in a Target store, when I saw a Cashier hand this little boy some money back. The boy couldn’t have been more than 5 or 6 years old. The Cashier said, I m sorry, but you don t have enough money to buy this doll.
Then the little boy turned to the old woman next to him: Granny, are you sure I don t have enough money? The old lady replied: You know that you don t have enough money to buy this doll, my dear. Then she asked him to stay there for just 5 minutes while she went to look around. She left quickly. The little boy was still holding the doll in his hand. Finally, I walked toward him and I asked him who he wished to give this doll to.
It’s the doll that my sister loved most and wanted so much for Christmas. She was sure that Santa Claus would bring it to her. I replied to him that maybe Santa Claus would bring it to her after all, and not to worry.
But he replied to me sadly. No, Santa Claus can’t bring it to her where she is now. I have to give the doll to my mommy so that she can give it to my sister when she goes there.
His eyes were so sad while saying this. My Sister has gone to be with God. Daddy says that Mommy is going to see God very soon too, so I thought that she could take the doll with her to give it to my sister. My heart nearly stopped. The little boy looked up at me and said: I told daddy to tell mommy not to go yet. I need her to wait until I come back from the mall. Then he showed me a very nice photo of himself. He was laughing. He then told me I want mommy to take my picture with her so she won t forget me. I love my mommy and I wish she didn’t have to leave me, but daddy says that she has to go to be with my little sister. Then he looked again at the doll with sad eyes, very quietly.
I quickly reached for my wallet and said to the boy. Suppose we check again, just in case you do have enough money for the doll! OK he said I hope I do have enough. I added some of my money to his without him seeing and we started to count it. There was enough for the doll and even some spare money. The little boy said: Thank you God for giving me enough money! Then he looked at me and added, I asked last night before I went to sleep for God to make sure I had enough money to buy this doll, so that mommy could give it to my sister. He heard me! I also wanted to have enough money to buy a white rose for my mommy, but I didn’t dare to ask God for too much. But He gave me enough to buy the doll and a white rose.
My mommy loves white roses. A few minutes later, the old lady returned and I left with my basket. I finished my shopping in a totally different state of mind from when I started. I couldn’t get the little boy out of my mind. Then I remembered a local news paper article two days ago, which mentioned a drunk man in a truck, who hit a car occupied by a young woman and a little girl. The little girl died right away, and the mother was left in a critical state. The family had to decide whether to pull the plug on the life-sustaining machine, because the young woman would not be able to recover from the coma. Was this the family of the little boy? Two days after this encounter with the little boy, I read in the news paper that the young woman had passed away. I couldn’t stop myself as I bought a bunch of white roses and I went to the funeral home where the body of the young woman was for people to see and make last wishes before her burial.
She was there, in her coffin, holding a beautiful white rose in her hand with the photo of the little boy and the doll placed over her chest.
I left the place, teary-eyed, feeling that my life had been changed for ever. The love that the little boy had for his mother and his sister is still, to this day, hard to imagine. And in a fraction of a second, a drunk driver had taken all this away from him.
Thursday, September 11, 2008
Support Oprah's Decision to Reject Sarah Palin
Support Oprah's Decision to Reject Sarah Palin - URGENT RELEASE
Hello Everyone,
This has been an interesting 2 weeks of deceit and lies brought to us by the Republican Party. The GOP's think that bringing a woman who describes herself as a "pit bull with lipstick" into the campaign is going to be a winning ticket. Apparently, the Republican Party thinks that Americans are ignorant or just stupid. Being a community organizer is apparently a big joke and now they want to protest our leading lady of television. I DON'T THINK SO…… This morning several newscasts reported that the Republican women in Florida are organizing an Oprah Winfrey boycott for declining the decision to have Sarah Palin on her show as a guest. We don't have to agree with everything Oprah does or say, but we must all respect and support her decision.
Oprah is the hardest working woman in the history of entertainment and has open doors for people like Tyra Banks, Queen Latifah, Wendy Williams and so many others to begin talk shows. She reinvented what African American beauty is considered on television and has provided hundreds if not thousands of people with job opportunities. Remember it was Oprah who traveled to New Orleans after Katrina and insisted that they let her into the Superdome that reaped of death and feces. It was the first time I saw her angry and was not accepting no for an answer. She was on the verge of knocking someone out because it was such a personal tragedy for all of us. I remember crying as I watched her show but then again I cried for the entire week that I watched my people dying on CNN waiting for assistance from The B ush Administration to rescue U.S. citizens because Condi was busy shoe shopping in NYC and Bush and Cheney were on vacation and missed the International coverage that we all witnessed for over 7 long days and nights.
It was Oprah who started the first efforts through her Angel Network to provide homes for displaced survivors from Katrina and called upon her friends for donations of new homes, not the leadership of the Republican government.
Oprah has never campaigned or publicly endorsed anyone until Senator Obama because she believed before most Americans could properly pronounce his name. Now, some of us are on the Obama staff, volunteers, donors, etc., because we all believe in him. Oprah was instrumental in bringing him national notoriety early in the election.
I AM ASKING FOR EVERYONE TO TIVO, DVR AND SPREAD THE WORD/FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO A MINIMUM OF 50 FRIENDS AND FAMILY TO WATCH/SUPPORT OPRAH'S SHOW THAT AIRES ON ABC NETWORK AT 4PM EST. CHECK YOUR LOCAL LISTING FOR STATION/TIME IN YOUR MARKET AND RECORD IT FOR AT LEAST 1 MONTH. WE MUST SPEAK CLEAR AND LOUD THROUGH THE NEILSON RATINGS THAT REPUBLICAN WOMEN HAVE NO POWER AND WILL NOT AFFECT OPRAH'S RATINGS, BECAUSE SHE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY NO THANK YOU TO PALIN OR ANYONE ELSE THAT SHE DECLINES AS A GUEST.
IT IS NOT CALLED THE REPUBLICAN WOMEN SHOW; IT IS THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW!!!!!!!
IF OPRAH SAYS SHE DOESN'T WANT TO USE HER SHOW, IN WHICH SHE CREATED OVER 15 YEARS AGO FOR POLITICAL PLATFORMS, THEN SHE WILL NOT BE THREATENED BY IGNORANT SUPPORTERS OF THE PITBULL WITH LIPSTICK.
LETS CALL THIS "COMMUNITY ORGANIZERS ARE NO JOKE CAMPAIGN." THIS IS PART OF A CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN TOO!!!!!
PLEASE PASS THIS ALONG AND DON'T FORGET TO SET YOUR TELEVISIONS FOR AT LEAST 1 MONTH OF TAPING THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW. WE WILL NOT BE PUSHED AROUND!!!! DON'T FORGET TO REGISTER TO VOTE AND IF ALREADY REGISTERED, CONFIRM THAT YOU STILL ARE –NOW!!- DON'T FORGET TO VOTE, IT'S YOUR RIGHT AND DUTY!!!!!!
Holly A. Cooper
President/CEO
Diva in Training Public Relations
Wednesday, August 27, 2008
Dual Citizenship for Liberians & Sarpo Park
Foreigners are benefitting from the Sarpo National Park because Sinoeans are not doing anything to uphold the park. Each year the USAA and SCAA have conventions and collect money but when it comes to use the money for the betterment of our beloved Sinoe, all you see and hear is fussing, name calling, power hungry fights on the net all day long. There are companies, universities, and other organizations in this country willing and able to help rebuild and strengthen the park but first you have to weed out the power-hungriness, petty cash moochers out of the way and even then, nothing gets done. You have the senator, superintent and other government officials doing absolutely nothing about the problems in Sinoe. These same government officials come to the USA with their big words and long stories but when you ask them a question about issues in Sinoe, all you get is “government need help” or “we have a lot of problem” DAH!!! We know this already that is why we invited you on our conference line is to give us details of what the major problems are and how you think it should be solve beside us putting money in your pocket. Sometimes, we know more about what is going on in Sinoe than they do- very shameful.
Whenever we try to do something for our people, the governments that will be the ones benefitting from your good deed want you to pay them first. They will not come out directly and say it but that is the result of what they are waiting for or it gets to be a power struggle between the officials. Example: We (SCAA) had 1000 school chairs made and delivered to Sinoe County for our various schools, up to today we have not gotten a simple “we got the chairs or they were distributed or thank you”. What our Sinoe government officials did with those chairs is anyone guesses.
Can you imagine if we were to send money collected from both organizations to help clean and strengthen the park, do you know how much of that, money will actually go to the park? NONE! It is a shame that our enemies are the same people we are trying to help. Only in Liberia, your enemy is the same person that needs your help. I am sure those chairs did not get to the schools because someone is waiting to be paid or the government cannot decide who should get the credit for them. If our government officials cannot get the credit for a job, they want nothing to do with it even if this make them look good. I challenge Superintendent Grigsby to give us an account of what happened to those chairs and which schools received how many of them. If they are not distributed, where are they and why? I also challenge Senator Nyenpan to help us gain the corrections needed on a land SCAA purchased in Sinoe. Senator, you were on one of our conference call and we explained the entire ordeal to you. We need the land survey done correctly, it was return from the Executive Mansion for corrections as we stated to you, up to now we have not heard from you, Mr. Grigsby or the person who did the survey.
Why should we have to beg and or pay our government to help us help them? This act is crazy to say the lease. This is like paying your children to help them do their homework, makes no sense at all. The government should rather be happy that we are trying to do something, which in term will help our dear beloved Sinoe County and Liberia.
Roberta Williams
Stay Blessed and listen to your body!!
Monday, June 16, 2008
Miss Liberia in the US 2008 Pageant
Miss Liberia in the US 2008 Pageant
Friday July 25, 2008 Pennsylvania Convention Center
1100 Arch Street. Phila. PA 19107 Formal Attire (Doors open at 6:00pm - Pageant Starts at 7:00pm Sharp) Tickets Available online visit www.missliberia.org
Official After Party Keya Graves Banquet Hall
10 N. 9th Street Darby PA 19023 For more pageant info visit Edith W. 610-986-1077 or Agnes D. 610-931-3819
Johnetta G. 267-251-1754 or Renee W. 609-977-4041
Evita G.610-529-2117 or Patience K. 267-972-6391
The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend Continues
Forwarded message ----------From: rob Williams <rwilliams610@gmail.com>Date: Jun 3, 2008 1:03 PMSubject: Fwd: [OnLiberianMedium] Re: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend ContinuesTo: Roberta Williams <rwilliams6@wellspan.org>---------- Forwarded message ----------From: rob Williams <rwilliams610@gmail.com>Date: Jun 3, 2008 9:13 AMSubject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Re: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend ContinuesTo: OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.com
What are you really trying to say below, because from what I gathered, you are saying that we should work together for the bettement of human kind; am I correct? If so, good, let join hands and work towards banning female mutilation for good.
Now that we are on the same page, pour the gingerale, drink a glass for me and tell your female relatives, you now understand the reasons FGM should be banned.
Roberta Williams
On 6/2/08, Arthur W Doe <Nahweah@msn.com> wrote:
Remember now, my dear brother, In America, we have our freedom. Most epecially, when we are discussing issue like this female circumcision, only an experience have knowledge in this matter. Therefore, his attempt to be opened to the nitty-gritty of this discussion should not be seen as provocative, otherwise, take some times and visit any Library in the Diaspora and make yourself available to interesting reading materials. That way, you will have respect for open discussion, and refrain from surrpoting others who want to impose their might on tardition. Do you have a glass of gingerale by your side? If not, you can join me. Art Weah Doe
To: OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.comFrom: jallah65@yahoo.comDate: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:12:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Re: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend Continues
This idea that because something is traditional we should continue to do it is a very disturbing to me.I will agree with Nimely and Nat on that Government should not have the right to arbitarily take away the rights of its citizens, but we should not use this to deter what our education and exposure to other cultures have come to teach us.years ago Eddie Murphy, the Comedian in an apparent rage over a relationship that had gone sour said in a joke that the next woman he was going to marry was going to be from Africa. He stated make sure if you do that you make sure she does not befriend an American woman. He stated the American woman would say to her" how that Eddie Murphy treating u.girl you know you can get half of everything if he is treating you bad".The joke culminates with the African woman telling Eddie Murphy " Eddie, I want half". Of course in his joke Eddie Murphy was implying that African Women were docile, and that he would want that type of woman because he could be more happy controlling her.However we know our African mothers, sisters e.t.c are too smart for that, and if you are a man who think you can continue that trend of control , NEWS FLASH(ARTHUR)When Celia described the story of Fatima, the real tragedy is that no one give Fatima the choice of whether she should have part of her clitoris removed or not.The same way no one gives the female a choice when they offer her to a man when she is twelve years old.When these women get educated they now understand the value of these decisions unfortunately some being irreversible.I wonder how a Nimely or a Nat or an Arthur Doe would look a Fatima in the eye.That is why reading Arthur Doe's account of his encounter offends me because it was the most pure form of male chauvinism exhibited on this forum to date.
----- Original Message ----From: "JTambah@aol.com" <JTambah@aol.com>To: OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.comSent: Monday, June 2, 2008 12:01:19 PMSubject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Re: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend Continues
Graphi...... ........here we come! Art, you probably forgot that you have been taken to task by women. Indeed, this particular one is Kru.....in case you did not know. You won't win......... ....sorry! !!!!!!!!! !!-----Original Message-----From: rob Williams <rwilliams610@ gmail.com>To: OnLiberianMedium@ yahoogroups. comCc: NEKTAA <nektaa@yahoogroups. com>; olm_adm04@yahoogrou ps.com <olm_adm04@yahoogrou ps.com>Sent: Mon, 2 Jun 2008 12:54 pmSubject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Re: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend ContinuesArt, By the way, you said your encounter with the Bassa bride was great for you, how was it for her? Did she make sound to let you know she was enjoying you? Did she have an organism or did she just lie there with her eyes closed leggs open waiting for you to be done already? Did you even bother to ask her how she enjoyed you on top of her? That's right; she wouldn't know her genital was cut out. Sorry, my bad!!!! Roberta Williams On 5/30/08, Arthur W Doe <Nahweah@msn. com> wrote:Ms. Williams, I really admired your posted research, most especially the usage of medical terminologies, and the education of us concerning the signs and symptoms of cutting the female genitalia. However, these are all Western diagnosis and/or prognosis, the very crust of our discussion. Mr. Tuon questioned the Western intrusion or aculturation into our nation state, thereby causing the elimination of a more than 100 years old culture or tradition. Since I became to grow up as a teenager in Harbel, Firestone, where most of these traditional traits occurred, I never heard a single case of genital elimination that cause HIV or AIDS. These are the Western tactics that slipped into our society that many of us socalled educated people see today as a 'health' problem. My dear, when I became to feel myself ripe for the go, my first interaction was with a 'Blonju,' a newly circumcised bride from the Bassa tribe. At that time I was between 13 - 14 years old, but the bride was about 15 or 16. I must admit that it was great. Guess what? My parents paid for for me touching this bride.Therefore, we should not becloud ourselves with this 'Western Imposition' of our culture/tradition. Yesterday, it was 'sassy wood,' and today is Genitalia femalia. The next thing will be the stopping of old men from 'eating' more than 'one wife.' Therefore, I wll join others to denounce the elimination and/or imposition of the Western influence on our tradition. Our culture is our identity, and our tradition is our mark. No matter of our acceptance of the Western culture, our judgment should be left with ourselves and not the government. The western culture should be an open ended issue that should be left with our individual persons to decide. For an imposition on a people may create problem for the government. Stopping our people is like taking away your credit card. You know you would not allow that to happen. Whether you cut it or you do not cut it, it still makes the 'pendulum' to move .back and forward. Art Weah Doe To: onliberianmedium@ yahoogroups. comFrom: celiabrown@msn. comDate: Fri, 30 May 2008 20:44:13 +0000Subject: RE: [OnLiberianMedium] Re: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend ContinuesRobert,Bravo!!! Your explanation is perfect and to the 'T'. No one person could have put it precisely the way you did below. In other words, since the female sexual desire is curbed after the circumcision, the female has lost the ability to even know if her partner, the male can sexually fulfill her? Since the female knows no better, the male walks around like he is the man, therefore actually pleases himself all the time. There is no problem in the relationship because, the female has lost the ability to enjoy the pleasure of sex since the genital part from which sexual height and pleasure is experienced has been taken away? I am also left to believe that after all these health problems that you explained below, that could happen to a female after the circumcision, it doesn't matter to those who are pro. All that matters is the enhancement of the male sexuality? Will this actually be the reason why some men will argue this point to the grave? Maybe I am wrong. Am I? (Celia Cuffy-Brown)My friend Gee, this is the only reason men want female genital cutting: Female genital cutting enhances male sexuality and curbs female sexual desire.Rob WilliamsTo: OnLiberianMedium@ yahoogroups. comFrom: rwilliams610@ gmail.comDate: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:22:56 -0400Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Re: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend ContinuesNGee, The potential physical complications resulting from the female genital cutting procedure are numerous. Because female genital cutting is often carried out without anesthesia, an immediate effect of the procedure is pain. Short-term complications, such as severe bleeding, which can lead to shock or death, are greatly affected by the type of female genital cutting performed, the degree of struggle by the woman or girl, unsanitary operating conditions, and inexperienced practitioners or inadequate medical services once a complication occurs. There is a very high risk of infection, with documented reports of ulcers, scar tissue and cysts. Female genital cutting may also interfere with a woman's pregnancy or labor. Other lasting effects that commonly result from female genital cutting procedures include urine retention, resulting in repeated urinary infections and obstruction in menstrual flow, which may lead to frequent reproductive tract infections, infertility and chronic pelvic pain. Female genital cutting is also thought to facilitate the transmission of HIV through several mechanisms. Significant psychological and psychosexual consequences of female genital cutting exist. My friend Gee, this is the only reason men want female genital cutting: Female genital cutting enhances male sexuality and curbs female sexual desire. Rob WilliamsOn 5/30/08, NGee <ngg06@yahoo. com> wrote:Ms. Brown, You are getting notorious by the day for making outrageous statements on this listserv, and it is time that you recognize such notoriety. I am sure you didn't 'pick a fight' with Mr, Tuon when you responded to his post, but if I respond to yours then I am inclined to 'pick a fight' with you, right? Well, Ms. Brown, such a clever plod will not work with me and you know it, so why even bother to try! You see, Ms. Brown, I said to either you on someone on this listserv not long ago that I do not look forward to the validation of my point of view, and I can tell you that the ethnic groups of Liberia that practice female circumcision do not need validation from you or anyone to practice their tradition. Female circumcision will remain part and parcel of Liberian traditional culture whether or not you liked it. For the traditions and cultural values of a people are not subject to change or negotiation to satisfy the curiosity of Ms. Brown and company. You see, Ms. Brown, I am not preaching culture more so than I am asking you and others to use the analytical skills you learned in school and disregard your personal emotions and biases--at least to certain extent--when dealing with the way of life of your fellow countrymen and women if you wish to live in peace in Liberia. For inasmuch as the traditional people do not interfere with you in your practice of western culture and belief systems, you and others should not interfere with the traditional people in the practice of their traditions. For right now, I have not heard of any instance in Liberia--a legal case or a health case--involving the traditional practice of female circumcision so where do you, the government, or any private groups come in to want to change or ban female circumcision? Hence, my argument, like that of Mr. Tuon, is about social justice, fair play, and empirical data to support you desire to ban the traditional practice of female circumcision in Liberia rather than my belief in a culture, even if I do. And so far, Ms. Brown, no proofs exist that female circumcision is detrimental to the Liberian society, especially to the health, reproductive capacity, sexual drives, and general welfare of Liberian women. And my contention is for you and others to provide the proof that female circumcision is harmful to Liberian society and Liberian women before we can even begin to talk about banning female circumcision. Mind you, Ms. Brown, even if you presented overwhelming proofs that female circumcision was detrimental to Liberian society and Liberian women, you will still have to justify why the practice should be banned instead of being modified and improved upon. So, sure, Ms. Brown, if you were the President of Liberia or an influential member of the National Legislature you might be inclined to ban female circumcision, but you will still have to provide proofs about the harmfulness of the practice and establish why the harm is so grave that the practice ought to be banned rather than improved. Of course, at that point, if you had the votes, you might prevail in the ban; but if not, female circumcision will not be affected. And the process for which I speak and I have just described, Ms. Brown, is called 'democracy,' and this is what we professed to want in Liberia so we must begin to abide by democratic principles. In other words, Ms. Brown, I value your right to abhor female circumcision and to preclude your female children from being circumcised, but you do not have the right to ban the way of life of a people on that basis alone, especially not in a democracy. For democracy, Ms. Brown, is about persuasion through verifiable facts and constant negotiations between people with opposing points of view on a given issue or subject. And if you are not willing to negotiate on female circumcision, you have the right to amuse yourself but your refusal to negotiate will not cause female circumcision to be banned. For if the government of Liberia through the Supreme Court banned sassywood--a public traditional practice--in 1956 and the practice is still in force today, what makes you think the people will heed a government ban on female circumcision, a practice secluded from the public? Well, good luck, Ms. Brown, with your ban on female circumcision, but it will never work in Liberia until the pe ople whose life style you want to change are willing to listen to you. Otherwise, the government in Monrovia can issue truck loads of 'bans' on Liberian traditional practices but no one will listen to the government. Nat Galarea Gbessagee5/30/08----- Original Message ----From: CELIA BROWN <celiabrown@msn. com>To: olm_adm04@yahoogrou ps.comSent: Friday, May 30, 2008 10:51:56 AMSubject: RE: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend ContinuesI have given my stand on this. You can rant and rage about culture all you want. I am glad that I have the luxury to make that decision for my daughter. She will be intact. Opening my mind to any other benefit of female circumcision is something I don't even want to think about or negotiate, neither discuss any further. You have the freewill to exult that culture. I have the freewill to be against it. And I am totally 100% gainst such practices. What ever the government needs to do to stop this, I am 100% behind the government!! !. Thanks Ngee. Go pick another fight. I am not going to take the place of Mr. Bedell!!! Celia Cuffy-Brown To: OLM_Adm04@yahoogrou ps.com; onliberianmedium@ yahoogroups. comFrom: ngg06@yahoo. comDate: Fri, 30 May 2008 04:05:10 -0700Subject: Re: [OLM_Adm04] The De-Africanization of Liberia: The Trend ContinuesMs. Brown, Sometimes when I read your writings on this listserv, especially the mannner in which you often tackled issues of national significance in Liberia, I wonder if you actually feel that your way of life is the best for everyone. I hope not because not everyone sees President Sirleaf as the 'savior' sent by God to redeem Liberia of its backwardness as you continued to profess on this listserv. Liberia must be run by rule of law in cadence with the cultural values, mores, and traditions of Liberia. No Liberian has the right to interfere with the religious, cultural, political, and social practices of another--not even government, unless such practices have been researched, studied, analyzed, and verified to be counterproductive to the national interest of Liberia. So the issue of female circumcision, sassywood, and other traditional practices of the various ethnic groups of Liberia cannot be deemed to be 'harmful' to society at large because Ms. Celia Brown and party saw a movie or read a novel that certain cultural practices in Liberia are 'harmful,' or because Ms. Celia Brown lives in the United States where the age of consent is '18' in some states so she thinks the age of consent in every county in Liberia is also '18.' You see, Ms. Brown, it is easy to sit in the United States behind a computer screen and write 'Now a days, some things that we practiced especially on our children, are wrong. Children can not protect themselves. If you were a woman, you would understand that it is better to have been dead than to have gone through that ritual.' However, the argument contained in your statement lacks every educational basis of substantiation. First, I really don't want to get into your 'if you were a woman' tautology because female circumcision in the traditional setting is performed in the Sande Institution, an all-female tradition al learning institution, so the issue of male domination is often a false claim associated with those who opposed female circumcision. Second, there are many things in this world, including the choice of food, clothing, dwelling place, early baptism, and travel from one location to another that are 'some things that we practiced on our children' in which the children are not old enough to make an informed decision. And it is the law of nature for the old to take care of the young until the young gets to a certain age to fend for itself. Hence, there is nothing 'wrong' with exposing children to the rituals and other practices of the culture in which they are born. I am sure that you are aware that most male children of Liberia and the United States did not have any say in being circumcised at birth, so there can be no exception for female children. Third, Ms. Brown, many of you who talked about female circumcision being 'wrong' or 'bad' for the female sexual exploits usually do so out of complete miseducation or sheer speculation because female circumcision has no impact on the sexual escapades of women, at least with my experience with women who have been circumcised and women who have not. But let be get away from the personal narratives about my experience with circumcised Liberian and other African women, and my own respect for traditional Liberian culture and dwell on the issues raised by Mr. Tuon from both an educational and legal perspective. First, from an educational perspective, there must be a legal, social, or cultural reason for every change that is contemplated to be made in society. This means that since of any kind of change in society is bound to benefit or harm certain segments of society, the basis for the change must be established from a cost-benefit analysis standpoint. For example, if the drinking age for teenagers in the United States were to be changed from 21 to 17 years, then from an educational perspective, the proponents of the change must establish in fact how the change will benefit American society, and how the current drinking age limit negatively impacts teenagers. These facts must therefore be established through writing by way of highlighting the pros and cons of the proposed change in drinking age based on research conducted of both proponents and opponents of teenage drinking age limit. The data collected for such a research study will also be verified through a system of validation by experts associated with teenage drinking habits to ascertain balance in the data collection process. After these processes, an educational basis for the change would have been established. On a legal basis, the data and results of the research study and expert testimonies will be submitted to the National Legislature of Liberia to hold public hearings on the pros and cons of female circumcision in Liberia, by soliciting testimonies from women who have undergone female circumcision with respect to their sexual practices, psychological bearings and general outlook on life as a direct result of female circumcision. In addition, persons like yourself, Ms. Brown, who feel that female circumcision is 'wrong' will also be invited to testify to give backing for your claim, along with governmental health administrator s like the Minister of Health and Social Welfare and directors of the major health centers and hospitals in Liberia to establish through testimony the harmful health effects of female circumcision cases in comparison to other health statistics of the nation. The Ministry of Internal Affairs and some county superintendents will also be invited to testify to the effects of female circumcision on local government administration in Liberia. Of course, Ms. Brown, after the National Legislature has heard all these testimonies from opponents and practictioners of female circumcision and health administrators and policymakers associated with the practice and impact of female circumcision on Liberian society, the National Legislation will make a determination of the case and decide to outlaw female circumcision or protect female circumcision intact or with a few modifications. Conversely, Ms. Brown and party could sue the practictioners of female circumcision in a court of law in Liberia to outlaw female circumcision on whatever grounds important to them and await the outcome of the case. Indeed, Ms. Brown, these are the only two legal bases under which female circumcision can be banned in Liberia. Otherwise, any attempt by an Americo-Liberian president to ban the Native Liberian tradition of female circumcision will be nothing more than a continuation of the cultural warfare that has engulfed Liberia from the time of independence in 1847 where the former American slaves thought their role was to be Americans in the heart of Africa, by practicing American cultural traditions and values while downplaying the cultural traditions and values of the African kinsmen and women who invited them back to Africa. You see, Ms. Brown, you and I have equal rights as Liberians so we must learn to negotiate our differences, including our cultural differences, without one of us trying to impose our will on others. I lived in Monrovia and saw many babies being baptized without their consent; male children being circumcised without their consent; many children forced to attend morning and afternoon schools on family social groups without their consent; many children made to be ordained as altar boys without their consent; many children forced to do chores in home without their consent, and many children forced into early prostitution by their parents--not the street variety--but the one intended to gain favor from Uncle Joe, Uncle Paul, or Cousin Peter, without their consent. Hence, Ms. Brown, it is good that you are in the position to make choices for yourself and your children, but many parents and many children don't have that luxury. But I should remind you that children don't have the choice to make any decisions on their own in any society if you come to think about it critically. Even children in the U.S. must submit to parental control in basically everything, including the choice of school to attend and the type of video game to play. But, again, what Ms. Brown thinks about traditional Liberian culture is the gospel truth so what do I and Mr. Tuon know! Nat Galarea Gbessagee5/30/08----- Original Message ----From: CELIA BROWN
Abortion Vs Female Circumcision cond't
From: Arthur W Doe <Nahweah@msn.com>Date: Jun 4, 2008 10:28 AMSubject: RE: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female CircumcisionTo: onliberianmedium@yahoogroups.com
Frederick, my dear, Hon. Bernard's failure to provide his readers with facts about FGM does not only question his study, but also open another discussion about how some students failed in school because their papers are out of the subject matter. Anyone can conduct a study, but only a few of these studies are credible. Do you know why? This is because scholars put in more time and energy in their work to come out with a decent paper. I am not If Hon. Bernard study had benefitted the purpose of the study, he would have provided at least, one or two citations to substantiate his claim. Otherwise, he must choose to hide the ingredients of his study. Moreover, the other part of your discussion that dealt with Hon. Bernard's past was not necessary. This is because, like other well down to earth "old boys" did mingle with the country boys. Hon. Bernard, in his times did exactly what he could to pave the way for some of our native boys, including George Manneh Weah as well as some players and supporters of IE. In fact, Hon. Bernard contributed immensely to sponsor students in colleges and unversities across our nation state. Therefore, to put him in the category of those who did not see the contrymen worthwhile is wrong. So, why trouble yourself with Hon. Bernard's past, most especially, to discuss corrupt practices that he did not condone? Whether the past or the present, the fact of the matter is that both countrymen and Americo-Liberians did involve in corrupt practices. I can not list the corrupt practices by former government officials of the Grand Old True Whig Party, but recent statement by our President Ellen Johnson -Sirleaf said that "her government is three times corrupt" as any government. Therefore, let us stick to this discussion and encourage Hon. Bernard to stay. By the way, do you have a glass of gingerale? If not, I"ll pass one to you.
To: onliberianmedium@yahoogroups.comFrom: fgvarney@msn.comDate: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:11:58 +0000Subject: RE: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Francis: I am not sure if I am getting this argument right. Archie seems to be pedantic in broaching a subject he has little or no understanding. He talked about writing a 30 page paper on FGM, yet he shares neither the thesis of his paper nor its findings, except for mentioning it in passing as though he was telling a love story to his fiancee. We all know how academics discuss issues that relate to meticulous research on trenchant issues that are often misunderstood. I am yet to know, as many on this listserv, Archie's research methodology as well as data collaboration, leading to a conclusion that FGM in our cultural context is anathema to female cultural civility. Francis, my brother, knowing the intricacies of our cultural nativity and its apparent frowns on any theatrical discussion of such issues, I am sorry to say that we know better than this gentleman. And, so, to open a discussion on such piercing cultural issues with a man whose knowledge of Liberia is circumscribed to Monrovia, may not be a wise thing to do. Can we engage him on the legendary corrupt practices handed down by his ancestors, in a civil manner, without opening old wounds? Can we talk about for instance, as you rightly said, about the predatory toll those "old boys" having on our youth, a topic Archie might find uncomfortable to talk about? One last thing: I was totally astounded by Brother Elijah's narrative that our elders opined that "they did not want the women to sexually behave like the men." I thought that a "compromised truth" coming from the brain power of the man who had no business saying something like that. I can only advise my brother not let his typing speed do the work of his mind. For I truly do not think that statement sprung from Elijah' staid mind. It was an equivocation and it must be shunned. Lastly: I hope Archie does not run away from this listserv because most of our "affluent older boys" fear being queried. They still live with a mindset that abhors questioning. They sometimes regard such discussion as something above their inherent pride. My hat is up for Bishop Warner, Mr. Flimister, and so many other elders on this listserv who share their daily thoughts with us. Frederick
To: OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.comFrom: fzazay@aol.comDate: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 02:10:32 -0400Subject: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Mr. Benard,
Greetings and this is my final comment on this issue. I will therefore close with this comment: If you cannot prove how female whatever is horrible to Liberia, you must stop commenting on the issue. Because I believe for a man of your status in Liberia, you should be aware of many ramifications before making a statement on issues of national critical importance. This forum should be to provide information and not sentiments and sharing information about mere upbringing. While this may be great, the fact is, the practice of upbringing a child depends on several factors. I will not go on naming them.
My only advice is the energy spent on tearing down an age old cultural practice that will take time before having any importance, should instead be spent on improving our society. Factors such as corruption, nepotism and teenage sexual exploitation by big boys are issues in Liberia. I will suggest that we spend time on those, as much as we would like to look at other issues in our community.
Good night
Francis Zazay
As a leader of our country, by virut
In a message dated 6/3/2008 7:54:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bernard1@un.org writes:
Greetings!During my upbringing, I always heard the saying "spare the rod; spoil thechild." But I never hear anything about "spare the cut; spoil the child."Basically, I oppose FGM because I believe it to be child abuse andviolation of a child's basic human rights. This belief is grounded in theteachings and guidance of my mother's wit as she nurtured me throughout herlife. Therefore, am I not duty bound to join others seeking understandingof precisely what one would be up against in the quest to rid any littlegirl of the suffering and scourge of FGM? How much more would be enoughresearch to know child abuse when FGM speaks for itself?Perhaps to understand what some of the rancor and rage over banning FGM isabout; either now or by and by, I must continue to avail myself of therichness of our tribal diversity by engaging others in dialogue to gaininsights to the tribal cultural tradition context, in which proponents ofFGM see justification. So, I would excuse those who addressed my "learned"capacity - or the lack thereof (He who is perfect, let him cast the firststone. ... As if it were not possible to learn something new each day?) andask you to kindly provide me with actual insights to help me understand thejustification for FGM within the context of Liberian tribal culturaltraditions?Already, I have much information from many African authors and medical andlegal authorities. In the book, "The Hidden Face of Eve" by Nawal elSaadawi, she gives a personal account of circumcision in part 1, titled"the mutilated half." Rather than it being written from a western point ofview, it is written by a woman in the Arab world, with a first handaccount. As is also with novels of Flora Nwapa, Ngugi Wa Thiongo. A fewother notable publications include Jomo Kenyatta's "Facing Mt. Kenya,"Chapter 6: "Initiation of Boys and Girls." And by Thiam, Awa. "Speak Out,Black Sisters: Feminism and Oppression in Black Africa;" and Toubia,Nahid. "Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action.Any additional insights on FGM, from the prospective of Liberian tribalcultural traditions, would add more to my overall understanding. But,please hear me clearly: my understanding of FGM within the context ofLiberian cultural tradition would be simply to aid in the quest to saveanother child from such abuse. From a cultural tradition perspective, beinga so-called "maggin boy from Rock Town" who is too "quee" to be called"congua," I am thankful that neither my sisters nor my two daughter wereexposed to the trauma of FGM.Best regards,Archie B.tolob@comcast.net Sent by: To: OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.com OnLiberianMedium@yaho cc: (bcc: Archie Bernard/ICTR/UNO) ogroups.com Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision 03/06/2008 12:18 PM Please respond to OnLiberianMedium In reading Archie Bernard's article on the subject "female circumcision" Iwas shocked to note that a learned lawyer from the Louise Arthur Grimesschool of Law would attempt to write on a subject that he knows little ornothing about. Consular Bernard, in your research on the subject inquestion, did you research to find out how many cultures around the worldpractice "female circumcision or female genital mutilation"? Is thepractice only confined to African societies? Are you telling us that youdid a 30 research paper based on half truths from your sisters' friends?Even though some of us frown on the practice solely out of health concerns,it is important to conduct a scientific research on the subject based onfacts before drawing any conclusions. Did you try to find why the MidEasterners practice "female Circumcision", or did you think that it is onlyAfrican societies that perform the rite? Be careful what you writeconsular. Thanks to Tuon and Jake Doe for your analysis on the subject.Tolo Bonah Corfah-------------- Original message --------------From: Archie Bernard <bernard1@un.org>Wow! Whatever it is that you are trying to say here, my response isthat:you are most welcome.Cheers!Archie B.Jacob Doe<josiboedoe@yahoo.com To: OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.com> cc: (bcc: Archie Bernard/ICTR/UNO)Sent by: Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs FemaleCircumcisionOnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.com02/06/2008 10:00 PMPlease respond toOnLiberianMediumCompatriot Tuon/Compatriot BernardCompatriot Tuon, Kindly accept my hearty compliments forfundamentallydebunking Archie Bernard´s promotion of his slavemasters´ culturebeing themetaculture for makind. Accordingly, may I please interject a pointofcorrection here: that this son of a Liberian immigrant IS NOT"re-enforcingthe fact but rather, RE-ENFORCING THE MYTH that many Afr icantraditions areconsidered barbaric and should be eradicated without any objectivestudy"as contained in your lead sentence compatriot Tuon.As for you compatriot Bernard, your chronic limitations on thesubjectmatter would have been unknown had you, instead of basing yourfindings onyour sisters´ gossips, look up the shelves for the Anthropology ofLaw, andthen at your current age you would have known that while you may dowellbeing a "successful" transmission belt for your slavemasters´commercialinterests, you do not have the sophestication to serve as atransmissionbelt to relegate, insult, or destroy any feature of the culture ofMamaAfrica!By the way, your reasearch conclusion reached from your sister´sgossipsand this your so called thirty page brief; was it from a positivists,interpretivist, idealist, externalist, or an internalist standpoint?Whileyou are at that I like to warn you via the following indices andsignals:Compatriot. Bernard, instead of lackadaisically promoting the myththat anytradition or culture from Mama Africa that is not approved by yourslavemasters is bad, you should be ejaculating knowledge during theseintellectual intercourses that will help them (your slavemasters) indesisting from homosexuality within the officialdom of the Church!Thisculture of theirs is dangerous and sewagingly shameful mostespecially soon the pulpit, and its Bishopric! Mr. Bernard would this die out?Thanks exceedingly,Jake DoeNimely-Sie Tuon <tuonagain@yahoo.com> wrote:Mr. Bernard's below intervention regarding female circumcision, knownas "Female Genital Mutilation" by its opponents, has revealednothing new, but simply re-enforcing the fact that many Africantraditions are considered barbaric and should be eradicated withoutany objective study of the matter. W hat we have here, as Mr. Bernardpointed out, is that every action taken so far regarding femalecircumcision, like many other African tribal practices, is aimed ateradicating not improving on it, or find out what impact this andmany others have had on the population that are involved in thesepractices for the past centuries. There has been no indepth study ofthis matter to see its pros and cons. This practice has survived manycenturies, and there is no proof that children born from women whounderwent this procedure are different from those born to the womenwho didn't.Mr. Bernard, like many others, who have attempted to discussed this,usually exposed their own lack of direct knowledge of this procedure.Mr. Bernard, as a Liberian law maker who had attempted to ban thisprocedure relied only on the writings of those that are against this,eventhough, Mr. Bernard was in the position to have visited thecenters, or native schoo ls, where this procedure is conducted butchose not to, and continues to call for its outright ban.The Liberian society, like many other African societies, aresaturated with many western ideas that have negatively impacted thepeople, but all we hear are excuses to improve on ugly western ideasand practices, not calling for them to be banned.While the west is telling us to ban female circumcision, the westrefused to ban abortion, once a very crude procedure, but insteadthey are improving on making the abortion procedure safe. An outrightban on abortion has fallen on deaf ears in which actual human rightsviolation do occurred. Right now in the abortion procedure, themethod of killing an unborn child is being improve, so why the femalecircumcision procedure can not be improved on medically?The ongoing onslaught of our tribal practices by those callingthemselves government officials, with total disregard to our people'ssensitivity, are setting the stage for a cultural revolt acrossLiberia. These unwarranted attacks on Liberia's trbal institutionshave nothing to do with nation building, but rather to perpetuate thesubornation of African natives to the rest of the world. EveryAfrican, or Liberian tribal way of life must be given the opportunityto be improved on like we do with western ideas, and allow the peopleinvolved to make informed decision as whether they want continue themor not.Archie Bernard <bernard1@un.org> wrote:Good morning to All,In law school I learned that female circumcision is a violationof herbasic human rights. Before then, I would hear of the practicebeing spokenabout in hush tones - as if it were taboo. Often, I would hearmy eightsisters wispering about some of the horrors recounted by theirgirlfriendswho were victims of the practice in the name of cultural riteof passage.During the constitutional drafting exercise, I gained moreinsight into thecomplex and nettlesome nature of this practice during ratherheated debatesabout what constitutes "positive Liberian culture." Later on,in theSenate, an attempt by us "young guns" to introduce a billbanning thepractice in Liberia was blocked by the presiding officer, withwarningsthat we would risk being JR-ed were we to persist. Onehonorable gentlemaneven accused me of not being qualified to understand thecultural ortraditional significance of this practice, because "my fatherhad notribe;" being the son of an immigrant to Liberia. So, to ensuresupport onother issues, we gave up that battle.Shortly thereafter, in my African Law class at the LouiseArthur GrimesSchool of Law, I took it as the subject of the required 30-pagebrief on atopic of African Law. The insights gained from readings andinterviews onthis topic were an eye opener - to say the least. It remindedme of mystudies of trial by ordeal, slavery, cannibalism and apatheid.And howthose too found justifications in religious zealotry , culturaltraditionsand social dogma. But, the poignant impact of this practice wassummed upin one look at a picture showing the utter shock and hurt inthe eyes of alittle girl, from something so life changing (yet avoidable)having beendone to her body, without her consent. Worse still, the pictureshowedthis been done to her body at the urging of her family. Whatmere wordswould ever be sufficient to justify such suffering on herinnocence? Likeother, I too wonder what manner of man would wish suchsufferring upon hisdaughter in the name of cultural tradition?Given the emotive nature spured by any talk of banning thispractice, apublic debate would provide the chance for better c ulturalunderstandingsand perhaps, eventually, some concensus on how we as a peoplewould addressthis intractable cultural practice. Moreover, without publicdebate, thisissue has the potential risk of being highjacked by those whowould preachtribalism disguised as nationalism. Yet, regardless of all thetalking,cutting-ups and carrying-ons (ironically being done mostly bymen), clearlythis is one of those "when-chicken-is-white, it-is-white"issues. And whileit may linger long; die it must. This practice is a voilationof a littlegirl's inner child, with profound impact on her life.Best regards,Archie B.
Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
From: CELIA BROWN <celiabrown@msn.com>Date: Jun 6, 2008 9:39 PMSubject: RE: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female CircumcisionTo: onliberianmedium@yahoogroups.com
Ngee:
MESSAGE FROM PRESIDENT SIRLEAF TO HARVARD GRADUATES
"For all of you hoping to change the world, to carry back to your professional environment new concepts of management, new models of development, new impetus for leadership whether in your local town, your county or province, your country, your NGO, or your civic organization. Be prepared for the challenge which comes from the resistance to change, from the fear of the unknown and untried," President Johnson-Sirleaf observed.
To: onliberianmedium@yahoogroups.com; OLM_Adm04@yahoogroups.comFrom: ngg06@yahoo.comDate: Fri, 6 Jun 2008 09:45:54 -0700
Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Ms. Brown,
I am not quite sure if you truly loved to amuse yourself, or you are simple inclined to bring much confusion to yourself about Liberian traditional cultural practices? For instance, I think only a person unfamiliar with Liberian history like yourself might write in a public forum such as this listerv that "African chiefs" sold Mr. Bernard's fore-parents into slavery, when all history texts on Liberian showed that the people known today as Native Liberians welcomed the former freed slaves, those known today as Americo-Liberians, back to Africa. And today, it is only misinformed persons like yourself who will harbor the idea that the person accused must prove his innocence rather than the accuser proving that the accused is guilty. Hence, in your misinformed mind, you write with much audacity:
"Everyone on this list serve who has been pro ban has provided reason. You have not even shown one article. you of all person who always does research, the king for research who even took the time to do research on my ancestors, have not come up with one single article in which FGM is seen as something beneficial for the female. We all know why you are promoting this FGM. We all know and we will leave it at that. FGM is proposed to be ban in Liberia. Studies and dialogues have already been conducted on this subject. It will be banned. You are the one who must go prove your case why you think it should be promoted!!!"
Well, Ms. Brown, the traditional practice of Liberia is female circumcision and not "female genital mutiliation," so you and I are not really discussing the same issue here. And granted that we both spoke about female circumcision within the Liberian cultural context, the only reference that will be necessary to the discussion will be a literature on the practice of female circumcision in Libeira and not female circumcision as practiced in other countries, as no two cultures practice the same way. But more important, I have no intention to provide a literature to satisfy your curoisity, as the practice of female circumcision is not subject to scrutiny simply because you and others think it does wet your western appetite. In other words, Ms. Brown, the articles you and Mr. Jallah and others have produced are irrelevant to the practice of female circumcision in Liberia, and those of us who advocate the right of the adherents of female circumcision to continue their way of life do not owe you and others an explanation as to why we think the people have the right to their practice. Consequently, no articles are necessary from our end, as the burden of proof is on you to establish why you think female circumcision should be banned.
Again, and as I informed Mr. Jallah earlier, I do not dignify undignifying things, so you can please yourself and beat your chest in whatever jubiliations you find in your specualtions about female circumcision. However, until you and others can provide concrete evidence that female circumcision is detrimental to Liberian society, you can advocate for a "ban" all you want but such a ban will not materialize in the sense that the people will not honor it if it came into being in the same way the people did not honor the sassywood ban of 1956 by the Liberian Surpeme Court, and recently by the Sirleaf government. A people's way of life cannot be changed on the fly, so you can amuse yourself all you want.
Nat Galarea Gbessagee
6/6/08
----- Original Message ----From: CELIA BROWN <celiabrown@msn.com>To: onliberianmedium@yahoogroups.comSent: Thursday, June 5, 2008 8:22:32 PMSubject: RE: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Gbesagee: Now, this is what I call tautology!!! Everyone else who is against FGM has provided documentations and written data, medically, socially, emmotionally to prove why FGM should be abolished. You and your compatriots have not given any tangible reason why it should be continued. You have not given any reason at all why FGM should continue. Everyone on this list serve who has been pro ban has provided reason. You have not even shown one article. you of all person who always does research, the king for research who even took the time to do research on my ancestors, have not come up with one single article in which FGM is seen as something beneficial for the female. We all know why you are promoting this FGM. We all know and we will leave it at that. FGM is proposed to be ban in Liberia. Studies and dialogues have already been conducted on this subject. It will be banned. You are the one who must go prove your case why you think it should be promoted!!! I am high 5ing and toasting to all the young girls in Liberia whom are set to be free from this inhumane treatment!!! ! As for you, I have no use for you!!! You are all tautology!!! ! You and your compatriots should use your political verbiage and rant on and on and on and on about the western world yet sit in the western world, keep your daughters secure, yet wish evil against someone elses innocent daughter. As Mr. Fahnbulleh always says, GOD FORBID!!! Goodnight Nat I have no used for your tautology!!! Celia Cuffy-Brown (Mrs.)
To: OnLiberianMedium@ yahoogroups. comFrom: ngg06@yahoo. comDate: Thu, 5 Jun 2008 15:15:06 -0700Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Mr. Jallah,
I am sorry, but these are the kinds of discussions that I consider an awful waste of my time. Just read your first paragraph, and you will come across words like "paranoia," "condescending, " "conspiracy, " "deter" and so forth, which have no bearing on the subject at hand. I have stated here repeatedly that I don't care what other people do in their homelands and what other people write about practices in their homelands because if you are going to ban a cultural practice in Liberia, then the burden is on you to establish how that cultural practice affects Liberians rather than Somalians and others.
In other words, Mr. Jallah, I have asked you, Ms. Brown, Mr. Bernard and others to establish the legal, cultural, ethical, and socioeconomic bases for seeking to ban female circumcision in Liberia within the context of Liberian society, given the legal separations of customary and anglo-saxon law. So far, posting articles about female circumcision in other countries has got nothing to do with Liberia, since you know fully well that no two societies practice their cultures the same way. Hence, my request to you for proof that female circumcision is bad is not a sign that I am an "authority" on female circumcision, since it is obvious in any setting where a ban is contemplated clear justifications on concrete evidence must be provided before any service can be discontiued, let alone an entire cultural practice, which is the way of life of a people, can be banned.
As to the rest of your speculations and conjectures, Mr. Jallah, they are not worth dignifying with a comment from me.
Nat Galarea Gbessagee
6/5/08
----- Original Message ----From: jal mar
Nat now your writing suggest some paranoia as I do not understand why you would suggest that Mrs Brown and I are high fiving as we are engaged in some conspiracy against you.You and Mrs Brown many times have engaged in heated battles, many of which I have stood on the sidelines and observed.To diminish my view in that condescending matter because you seem to hold that you are an authority on a matter because you are a Native Liberian does not deter me from having an informed decision.The posted literature on this subject was intended for you and Jacob Doe's benefit.I would suppose that you would assume that the female model from Somalia is not an authority on FGM too right? I urge you to read her story.I find her to be a better source of information than you using your logic that she is a female so that would make her an authority on the subject.After all you are a man and have no authority to speak on the workings of the sande society. How limiting would that be if for instance only Germans could speak as authorities on German subjects, or Liberians who are living in Liberia are the only ones that could discuss the Ellen Johnson Sirleaf government? In my opinion that would severely limit your mission since 2002 more especially since you do not live in Liberia and have no right to speak against the Ellen Johnson Sirleaf government? Is that logical? No. For me I find it limiting so let me put it in perspective. If a culture is out there and for instance say the Father believes that sleeping with his daughter is a rite of passage, or like the Chinese bind the woman's foot, or you beat you wife. I will speak up against it.I know Jacob Doe is advocating the Cultural relativism theory where it states right and wrong can only be judged by a specific society, well I do not subscribe to that theory. John Dewey would be proud of Jacob Doe, I think you know Jake he is a Westerner but I won't get into your rants and then using a westerner's point of view..As for me I believe that murder, genocide, child abuse, spousal abuse, rape are cross cultural phenomeons so when I see evidence of such I will speak out against it, and I believe Mr Bernard and Celia Brown will too.I believe that is how every culture improves that is why slavery is no longer existent in the United States today and why there will come a day in Liberia where young girls will not be given away in marriage or have a procedure done to them that they might not want. Maybe even if they wanted it done it would be done in a medically safe environment instead of your local barber.This is my mission declared in 2008 to protect against intellectual misrepresentations and rhetoric when it comes to women and children's rights.
----- Original Message ----From: NGee
Ms. Brown,
Self-glorification is sometimes good for individual self-esteem in the face of daunting challenges, so I have no problem with you amusing yourself that you of all persons on this listserv, Ms. Brown, "brought him [Gbessagee] down to his knees quite recently." I am very happy for you, Ms. Brown, for dreaming so high. However, read my writings from 2002 until now and you will realize that you are greatly mistaken in your view about how I tackle issues on this listserv and elsewhere. And I must inform you that I have no inclinations to dignify your rambling about President Doe and "gravy train." I think many persons before you have taken that position as a way to deviate from the issue at hand, so I am sorry, but I won't let you escape from the discussion about female circumcision and your misinformed notion that "African chiefs" sold Mr. Bernard's fore-parents into slavery. I think it is such carelessness on your part regarding Liberian history that makes you to think that a people's way of life can be changed on the fly to satisfy either your curoisity or misguarded moral outrage.
As to Mr. Jallah, I don't think he understands the issue at hand by his suggestion that Mr. Bernard's Americo-Liberian background is not a factor in Mr. Bernard's desire to ban female circumcision in Liberia. First, Mr. Jallah, female circumcision is a Native Liberian cultural practice and not an Americo-Liberian cultural practice, so Mr. Bernard lacks any authority whatsoever to speak to the benefits and lack thereof of female circumcision. Second, by an outsider like Mr. Bernard seeking to ban the cultural practice of Native-Liberians without the benefit of input by Native Liberians who are custodians of Native Liberian culture, Mr. Bernard effectively introduced the issue of cultural difference with respect to which cultural practices are acceptable to Liberian society and which are not. So in essence, Mr. Jallah, it was Mr. Bernard who introduced the subject of Americo-Liberian culture vs Native Liberian culture by seeking to ban a practice outside his own Americo-Liberian culture.
But, again, Mr. Jallah, I do not dignify any statements from anyone who holds an opposing point of view on an issue but at the same time anoints himself as a judge of the very issue. In other words, Mr. Jallah, where you see "inconsistent pattern" I see "concrete connections, " so I have no inclinations to dignify misplaced judgments on an issue as important as female circumcision, a core value of Native Liberian culture.
I should, however, let you know that I delight in the fact that you and Ms. Brown can begin to "high five" yourselves for a job well done, no matter how misinformed and miseducated you present yourselves on the issue of female circumcision in Liberia. After all, the only people who can determine that something is "child abuse" within a culture are the adherents of that culture and no one else, so western standards of child abuse are immaterial to the practice of female circumcision in Liberian traditional culture. Even Mr. Bernard as a legislator lacks the qualification to ban female circumcision, so it is far-fetched that you and Ms. Brown think female circumcision can be subjected to western cultural values and jurisprudence. But good luck in your misinformed jubilations.
Nat Galarea Gbessagee6/5/08
----- Original Message ----From: CELIA BROWN
Jallah,Gbesagee is so fake and inconsistent. His arguments are only consistent against people he particularly don't care about or shall I say dislike. That is, people who make compelling cases on a particular subject, better than he does. He must win at all cost or belittle a person. He speaks so fondly of President Samuel K. Doe's government, has never had anything negative to say of the Doe regime yet he speaks so negatively of the Sirleaf Government. Since I brought him down to his knees quite recently, he begins to write kindly of the Sirleaf Government once in a while. Even when he does write, you see the insincerity in his writing. Now you all will began to believe me that he hates any government that suceeded Doe because his gravy train has been cut off!!! He was not and has not been invited to get on this train. As for the Sirleaf government, there is no gravy. Mrs. Sirleaf is intolerant of gravy seekers!!! Well, well, well!!!Gbesagee, the western world has just enabled the son of an African Immigrant to make history. I like the western world. In the western world, women keep their clitoris and the rights of those whom can not defend themselves are protected. You go ahead and promote your culture that violates the rights of women and children, to prove that you are the mannnnnn!!! Sorry pal!!! The world has no time for political lunatics. You happen to be one the bitter people that obama is speaking about who hold on culture and colts.Like your pal arthur, I am not going to drink ginger ale. I am going to pop a bottle of champaign!!! I must toast to the western world where there are endless possibilities of life!!!Celia Cuffy-Brown
To: OnLiberianMedium@ yahoogroups. comFrom: jallah65@yahoo. comDate: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:46:39 -0700Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Nat. I detect an inconsistent pattern here and it would be unfair fo me to not point it out.First whether Mr Benard is an Americo Liberian has nothing to do with topic of female circumcision. Second, it is interesting that you would admonish Celia for deviating from the subject, when in fact it is Messers Varney, Zazzay, Doe who were the original culprits in diverting this topic into a Native Liberian vs Americo Liberian.As you can see by some of the information I have posted here the female circumcision did not originate here on the Liberian medium. It has in fact been debated for decades. Also there are various views in which this discussion is treated , medical, cultural and legal, and one of Mr Bernard's concerns was the violation of childrens rights.I think you can see by where Mr Bernard now works why that might be an issue of great concern for him. Furthermore you are not a Doctor, Lawyer or Politician but that doesn't stop you from commenting on issues so why should Mr Bernard not have an opinion like you usually have.
----- Original Message ----From: NGee
Ms. Brown,
The last time I read your writing on this listserv regarding Mr. Bernard's view on female circumcision, you wrote that Native Liberians had no business questioning Mr. Bernard on his misinformed rendering of the efficicy of female circumcision to Native Liberian culture, and the impact of that culture on Liberian society, unless the Natives had no intention but to gang on Mr. Bernard. Of course, you wrote specifically, Ms. Brown: "Before your get to form your native comradery, your don't forget that Mr. Bernard did not become an Americo-Liberian by choice. A Native African Chief sold his people into slavery for Gin and Tobacco. Let us stick to the subject. No slave master business here!! " It is quick amusing Ms. Brown that in the very passage that you shouted "let us stick to the subject," used introduced the subject of slavery which has got nothing to do with female circumcision. But this is the typical Ms. Brown who usually introduces a subject outside the subject at hand, since her singular belief is that she has monopoly over the issue of "right and wrong" or "good and bad" in Liberian society.
Nonetheless, Ms. Brown, in this single passage quoted above from your post, you not only bought into the illusion on the part of Mr. Bernard as regards what he supposed are the benefits and benalities of female circumcision, but also that somehow Mr. Bernard's identity as an Americo-Liberian was not crafted by his foreparents, the ex-American slaves, but by some divine misdirection on the part of a "Native African Chief" selling Mr. Bernard's ancestors into "slavery for Gin and Tobacco." Howbeit to say that such a statement from a supposed educated Liberian like yourself is the hallmark of the kind of miseducation among Liberians about Liberian and African history that has resulted in so much turmoil in Liberian life and identity today. For it is difficult that a discussion about female circumcision will deviate into a discussion about slavery, especially where one lacks complete knowledge of the Transatlantic slave trade that took many Africans from their homeland to slave camps in Europe and America. And it seems that Ms. Brown is wholly unaware that the phrase "African chiefs" is not the same as "Liberian chiefs," so the notion of who sold whom shouldn't have any basis in a discussion about female circumcision in Liberia, a cultural practice in Liberia, but also in other parts of Africa, Asia, the Middle East, and Europe. And I do not wish to dignify Ms. Brown's myth about Mr. Bernard's foreparents being sold into slavery, when Ms. Brown has established earlier that she doesn't even know the origin of her own ancestors, let alone the fact that any discussion about slavery that excludes the slave-masters is greatly misinformed.
However, I should like to point out the irony in Ms. Brown's current post regarding Mr. Bernard. She wrote: "Senator Bernard has been an exemplified citizen of Liberia. He has never displayed uppity attitude with his fellow Liberians as you can even attest to on this listserve. Even in the mist of this discussion, in which he is being attacked instead of the issue, he remains steadfast in being true to himself, not patronizing the hate characterizing of his African-Western origin!" I believe this passage speaks highly of the confusion that Ms. Brown brings to discusssion of the subject of female circumcision. First, Mr. Bernard is not doing Native Liberians a favor by participating in this discussion about female circumcision, so I care less as to whether or not Mr. Bernard displays "uppity attitude" and "remains steadfast in being true to himself," let alone if he consigned himself to "not patronizing the hate characterizing of his African-western origin!" To me, it is shameful that the very Ms. Brown who introduced slavery into the discussion will have the audacity to cast scrutiny of Mr. Bernard's rendering on female circumcision as an attack on him or a matter of "hate" about his origin.
Second, with all due respect to Mr. Bernard, he is the least qualified person to do a research on female circumcision as he is more a politician buried in the cultural warfare between Native Liberian vs Americo-Liberian since the time of Liberian independence in 1847, so he had a hypothesis to discredit the practice of female circumcision as starting point for his research rather than to objectively look at the practice and its relevance and contribution to the social and cultural structures are uniquely Native Liberians. In other words, Mr. Bernard is not qualified to tell the story of Native Liberians in the voice of Native Liberian with a goal of projecting a positive image of Native Liberian cultural practices as a matter of bringing about mutual respect and understanding of the culture as regards all segments of Liberian society. And Mr. Bernard's lack of qualification as a voice on Native Liberian issues boils down to the fact that Mr. Bernard is not only an Americo-Liberian aligned fully to the minority within the Americo-Liberian class that perpetuated inequality in all dimensions in LIberia, but also that Mr. Bernard attempted to misuse his power as a legislator to impose his view on the Liberian people by seeking to ban female circumcision withou public hearings and consultations with the Native Liberians whose way of life includes female circumcision.
Third, as Mr. Varney, Mr. Zazay, and others have already indicated, Mr. Bernard provides no cultural, intellectual, and historical contexts for his research of female circumcision, and Mr. Bernard failed to state the demographics of his research, even if the research is qualitative or quantative. And in the academic world, Mr. Bernard must provide the research sequence he used--one or two of the various research methodologies grouped under qualitative or quality research methods--and provide a theoretical framework for his findings and conclusions. So far, Mr. Bernard has failed to establish a research methodology and a theoretical framework for his research findings. Consequently, Mr. Bernard lacks any credibility regarding female circumcision as his research cannot be established within the confines of academia, and he is socially and culturally detached from the practice of female circumcision. Perhaps, like others have said, Mr. Bernard might have done good to himself and the Liberian people if he had started with something he grew up in--rumors about ritualistic killings in the Liberian Masonic Craft and UBF; the rationale of a minority group ruling a majority group without not intention to share power; the rationale that the minority enjoyed all leadership posts in the government; corruption and lack of justice in Liberia; the unfair distribution of wealth, and so forth and so on.
You see, Ms. Brown, these are the real academic issues that Mr. Bernard should have concerned himself with as a law student rather than the traditional practice of female circumcision. And these are the reasons why Mr. Bernard might not be remotely qualified to give an opinion on the efficacy of female circumcision on the growth and development of the various ethnic groups of Liberia that practiced female circumcision. In other words, without equality and a fair justice system in Liberia, it is highly unlikely that Mr. Bernard can serve any useful purpose in banning a traditional practice of a huge segment of Liberian society, whose very practices are protected by the constitution of Liberia. Hence, no one wants to "attack" Mr. Bernard for his lack of knowledge and lack of academic credential and credibility in matter far removed from his area of study--law.
Nat Galarea Gbessagee
6/4/08
----- Original Message ----From: CELIA BROWN
Arthur and Senator Bernard:Thank you Arthur for your clarity of the character of Senator Barnard, a hero in paving the way for young men in soccer. He was one of those few people who did not see young football players as "GBANA PEKIN" otherwise "Grona Boys". He encouraged young soccer fans to reach beyond the status quo. As a matter of fact, Mr. Bernard did provide proof of some facts of FGM. He stated that he did some work with operation smile . He also wrote a thesis on the subject. People who do thesis, gather relevant information about the subject and compile a document and defend the document. It is left with you to do your research to find out if his statement is credible.I lived in Monrovia at the time he spoke about and can verify that yes, indeed, he was involved with operation smile and many other charitable organizations that would enhance the quality of life for Liberians. Senator Bernard has been an exemplified citizen of Liberia. He has never displayed uppity attitude with his fellow Liberians as you can even attest to on this listserve. Even in the mist of this discussion, in which he is being attacked instead of the issue, he remains steadfast in being true to himself, not patronizing the hate characterizing of his African-Western origin! I know that his quest to be a part of this discussion is not to show how educated he is. His quest is to be a voice to a process to eliminate an inhumane treatment of defenseless young women who are underage and can not help themselves. In life, we who can be heard, must be the voice of those whom do not have the power to have their voices heard. These are some of the purposes of our lives. Gbana Pekins were Grona Boys!!! Some body who had a voice and the power, made them International Soccer Stars!!! Senator Bernard is one of those people. I personally will take this opportunity to thank Mr. Bernard for Continuing to be the voice of the voiceless. Mr. Bernard, you have never allowed any negative criticism discouraged you from doing what you do best; being a voice that enhances the quality of life for your fellow voiceless, Liberian. You have been the voice for the stigmatized. You have been the voice for those whom have been placed in a caste category of a society that should not even have a caste system. Caste as in those whom have been born into a culture that would not grow in the trend of time. As you are given a voice, you must continue to be the voice that you are in the cause of those whom can not speak for themselves. Some of us are obliged to follow some of those wonderful examples set by people like you. May God continue to bless you and your family!!! Just to remind you, you don't have to thank me because, you deserve to be told this at this time!!!Celia Cuffy-Brown (Mrs.)
To: onliberianmedium@ yahoogroups. comFrom: Nahweah@msn. comDate: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 14:28:41 +0000Subject: RE: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Frederick, my dear, Hon. Bernard's failure to provide his readers with facts about FGM does not only question his study, but also open another discussion about how some students failed in school because their papers are out of the subject matter. Anyone can conduct a study, but only a few of these studies are credible. Do you know why? This is because scholars put in more time and energy in their work to come out with a decent paper. I am not If Hon. Bernard study had benefitted the purpose of the study, he would have provided at least, one or two citations to substantiate his claim. Otherwise, he must choose to hide the ingredients of his study. Moreover, the other part of your discussion that dealt with Hon. Bernard's past was not necessary. This is because, like other well down to earth "old boys" did mingle with the country boys. Hon. Bernard, in his times did exactly what he could to pave the way for some of our native boys, including George Manneh Weah as well as some players and supporters of IE. In fact, Hon. Bernard contributed immensely to sponsor students in colleges and unversities across our nation state. Therefore, to put him in the category of those who did not see the contrymen worthwhile is wrong. So, why trouble yourself with Hon. Bernard's past, most especially, to discuss corrupt practices that he did not condone? Whether the past or the present, the fact of the matter is that both countrymen and Americo-Liberians did involve in corrupt practices. I can not list the corrupt practices by former government officials of the Grand Old True Whig Party, but recent statement by our President Ellen Johnson -Sirleaf said that "her government is three times corrupt" as any government. Therefore, let us stick to this discussion and encourage Hon. Bernard to stay. By the way, do you have a glass of gingerale? If not, I"ll pass one to you.
To: onliberianmedium@ yahoogroups. comFrom: fgvarney@msn. comDate: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 12:11:58 +0000Subject: RE: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Francis: I am not sure if I am getting this argument right. Archie seems to be pedantic in broaching a subject he has little or no understanding. He talked about writing a 30 page paper on FGM, yet he shares neither the thesis of his paper nor its findings, except for mentioning it in passing as though he was telling a love story to his fiancee. We all know how academics discuss issues that relate to meticulous research on trenchant issues that are often misunderstood. I am yet to know, as many on this listserv, Archie's research methodology as well as data collaboration, leading to a conclusion that FGM in our cultural context is anathema to female cultural civility. Francis, my brother, knowing the intricacies of our cultural nativity and its apparent frowns on any theatrical discussion of such issues, I am sorry to say that we know better than this gentleman. And, so, to open a discussion on such piercing cultural issues with a man whose knowledge of Liberia is circumscribed to Monrovia, may not be a wise thing to do. Can we engage him on the legendary corrupt practices handed down by his ancestors, in a civil manner, without opening old wounds? Can we talk about for instance, as you rightly said, about the predatory toll those "old boys" having on our youth, a topic Archie might find uncomfortable to talk about? One last thing: I was totally astounded by Brother Elijah's narrative that our elders opined that "they did not want the women to sexually behave like the men." I thought that a "compromised truth" coming from the brain power of the man who had no business saying something like that. I can only advise my brother not let his typing speed do the work of his mind. For I truly do not think that statement sprung from Elijah' staid mind. It was an equivocation and it must be shunned. Lastly: I hope Archie does not run away from this listserv because most of our "affluent older boys" fear being queried. They still live with a mindset that abhors questioning. They sometimes regard such discussion as something above their inherent pride. My hat is up for Bishop Warner, Mr. Flimister, and so many other elders on this listserv who share their daily thoughts with us. Frederick
To: OnLiberianMedium@ yahoogroups. comFrom: fzazay@aol.comDate: Wed, 4 Jun 2008 02:10:32 -0400Subject: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision
Mr. Benard,
Greetings and this is my final comment on this issue. I will therefore close with this comment: If you cannot prove how female whatever is horrible to Liberia, you must stop commenting on the issue. Because I believe for a man of your status in Liberia, you should be aware of many ramifications before making a statement on issues of national critical importance. This forum should be to provide information and not sentiments and sharing information about mere upbringing. While this may be great, the fact is, the practice of upbringing a child depends on several factors. I will not go on naming them.
My only advice is the energy spent on tearing down an age old cultural practice that will take time before having any importance, should instead be spent on improving our society. Factors such as corruption, nepotism and teenage sexual exploitation by big boys are issues in Liberia. I will suggest that we spend time on those, as much as we would like to look at other issues in our community.
Good night
Francis Zazay
As a leader of our country, by virut
In a message dated 6/3/2008 7:54:55 A.M. Central Daylight Time, bernard1@un. org writes:Greetings!During my upbringing, I always heard the saying "spare the rod; spoil thechild." But I never hear anything about "spare the cut; spoil the child."Basically, I oppose FGM because I believe it to be child abuse andviolation of a child's basic human rights. This belief is grounded in theteachings and guidance of my mother's wit as she nurtured me throughout herlife. Therefore, am I not duty bound to join others seeking understandingof precisely what one would be up against in the quest to rid any littlegirl of the suffering and scourge of FGM? How much more would be enoughresearch to know child abuse when FGM speaks for itself?Perhaps to understand what some of the rancor and rage over banning FGM isabout; either now or by and by, I must continue to avail myself of therichness of our tribal diversity by engaging others in dialogue to gaininsights to the tribal cultural tradition context, in which proponents ofFGM see justification. So, I would excuse those who addressed my "learned"capacity - or the lack thereof (He who is perfect, let him cast the firststone. ... As if it were not possible to learn something new each day?) andask you to kindly provide me with actual insights to help me understand thejustification for FGM within the context of Liberian tribal culturaltraditions?Already, I have much information from many African authors and medical andlegal authorities. In the book, "The Hidden Face of Eve" by Nawal elSaadawi, she gives a personal account of circumcision in part 1, titled"the mutilated half." Rather than it being written from a western point ofview, it is written by a woman in the Arab world, with a first handaccount. As is also with novels of Flora Nwapa, Ngugi Wa Thiongo. A fewother notable publications include Jomo Kenyatta's "Facing Mt. Kenya,"Chapter 6: "Initiation of Boys and Girls." And by Thiam, Awa. "Speak Out,Black Sisters: Feminism and Oppression in Black Africa;" and Toubia,Nahid. "Female Genital Mutilation: A Call for Global Action.Any additional insights on FGM, from the prospective of Liberian tribalcultural traditions, would add more to my overall understanding. But,please hear me clearly: my understanding of FGM within the context ofLiberian cultural tradition would be simply to aid in the quest to saveanother child from such abuse. From a cultural tradition perspective, beinga so-called "maggin boy from Rock Town" who is too "quee" to be called"congua," I am thankful that neither my sisters nor my two daughter wereexposed to the trauma of FGM.Best regards,Archie B.mailto:tolob@comcast.net Sent by: To: mailto:OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.com OnLiberianMedium@ yaho cc: (bcc: Archie Bernard/ICTR/ UNO) ogroups.com Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision 03/06/2008 12:18 PM Please respond to OnLiberianMedium In reading Archie Bernard's article on the subject "female circumcision" Iwas shocked to note that a learned lawyer from the Louise Arthur Grimesschool of Law would attempt to write on a subject that he knows little ornothing about. Consular Bernard, in your research on the subject inquestion, did you research to find out how many cultures around the worldpractice "female circumcision or female genital mutilation"? Is thepractice only confined to African societies? Are you telling us that youdid a 30 research paper based on half truths from your sisters' friends?Even though some of us frown on the practice solely out of health concerns,it is important to conduct a scientific research on the subject based onfacts before drawing any conclusions. Did you try to find why the MidEasterners practice "female Circumcision" , or did you think that it is onlyAfrican societies that perform the rite? Be careful what you writeconsular. Thanks to Tuon and Jake Doe for your analysis on the subject.Tolo Bonah Corfah------------ -- Original message ------------ --From: Archie Bernard <mailto:bernard1@un.org>Wow! Whatever it is that you are trying to say here, my response isthat:you are most welcome.Cheers!Archie B.Jacob Doe<mailto:josiboedoe@yahoo.com To: mailto:OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.com> cc: (bcc: Archie Bernard/ICTR/ UNO)Sent by: Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs FemaleCircumcisionOnLiberianMedium@ yahoogroups.com02/06/2008 10:00 PMPlease respond toOnLiberianMediumCompatriot Tuon/Compatriot BernardCompatriot Tuon, Kindly accept my hearty compliments forfundamentallydebunking Archie Bernard´s promotion of his slavemasters´ culturebeing themetaculture for makind. Accordingly, may I please interject a pointofcorrection here: that this son of a Liberian immigrant IS NOT"re-enforcingthe fact but rather, RE-ENFORCING THE MYTH that many Afr icantraditions areconsidered barbaric and should be eradicated without any objectivestudy"as contained in your lead sentence compatriot Tuon.As for you compatriot Bernard, your chronic limitations on thesubjectmatter would have been unknown had you, instead of basing yourfindings onyour sisters´ gossips, look up the shelves for the Anthropology ofLaw, andthen at your current age you would have known that while you may dowellbeing a "successful" transmission belt for your slavemasters´commercialinterests, you do not have the sophestication to serve as atransmissionbelt to relegate, insult, or destroy any feature of the culture ofMamaAfrica!By the way, your reasearch conclusion reached from your sister´sgossipsand this your so called thirty page brief; was it from a positivists,interpretivist, idealist, externalist, or an internalist standpoint?Whileyou are at that I like to warn you via the following indices andsignals:Compatriot. Bernard, instead of lackadaisically promoting the myththat anytradition or culture from Mama Africa that is not approved by yourslavemasters is bad, you should be ejaculating knowledge during theseintellectual intercourses that will help them (your slavemasters) indesisting from homosexuality within the officialdom of the Church!Thisculture of theirs is dangerous and sewagingly shameful mostespecially soon the pulpit, and its Bishopric! Mr. Bernard would this die out?Thanks exceedingly,Jake DoeNimely-Sie Tuon <mailto:tuonagain@yahoo.com> wrote:Mr. Bernard's below intervention regarding female circumcision, knownas "Female Genital Mutilation" by its opponents, has revealednothing new, but simply re-enforcing the fact that many Africantraditions are considered barbaric and should be eradicated withoutany objective study of the matter. W hat we have here, as Mr. Bernardpointed out, is that every action taken so far regarding femalecircumcision, like many other African tribal practices, is aimed ateradicating not improving on it, or find out what impact this andmany others have had on the population that are involved in thesepractices for the past centuries. There has been no indepth study ofthis matter to see its pros and cons. This practice has survived manycenturies, and there is no proof that children born from women whounderwent this procedure are different from those born to the womenwho didn't.Mr. Bernard, like many others, who have attempted to discussed this,usually exposed their own lack of direct knowledge of this procedure.Mr. Bernard, as a Liberian law maker who had attempted to ban thisprocedure relied only on the writings of those that are against this,eventhough, Mr. Bernard was in the position to have visited thecenters, or native schoo ls, where this procedure is conducted butchose not to, and continues to call for its outright ban.The Liberian society, like many other African societies, aresaturated with many western ideas that have negatively impacted thepeople, but all we hear are excuses to improve on ugly western ideasand practices, not calling for them to be banned.While the west is telling us to ban female circumcision, the westrefused to ban abortion, once a very crude procedure, but insteadthey are improving on making the abortion procedure safe. An outrightban on abortion has fallen on deaf ears in which actual human rightsviolation do occurred. Right now in the abortion procedure, themethod of killing an unborn child is being improve, so why the femalecircumcision procedure can not be improved on medically?The ongoing onslaught of our tribal practices by those callingthemselves government officials, with total disregard to our people'ssensitivity, are setting the stage for a cultural revolt acrossLiberia. These unwarranted attacks on Liberia's trbal institutionshave nothing to do with nation building, but rather to perpetuate thesubornation of African natives to the rest of the world. EveryAfrican, or Liberian tribal way of life must be given the opportunityto be improved on like we do with western ideas, and allow the peopleinvolved to make informed decision as whether they want continue themor not.Archie Bernard <mailto:bernard1@un.org> wrote:Good morning to All,In law school I learned that female circumcision is a violationof herbasic human rights. Before then, I would hear of the practicebeing spokenabout in hush tones - as if it were taboo. Often, I would hearmy eightsisters wispering about some of the horrors recounted by theirgirlfriendswho were victims of the practice in the name of cultural riteof passage.During the constitutional drafting exercise, I gained moreinsight into thecomplex and nettlesome nature of this practice during ratherheated debatesabout what constitutes "positive Liberian culture." Later on,in theSenate, an attempt by us "young guns" to introduce a billbanning thepractice in Liberia was blocked by the presiding officer, withwarningsthat we would risk being JR-ed were we to persist. Onehonorable gentlemaneven accused me of not being qualified to understand thecultural ortraditional significance of this practice, because "my fatherhad notribe;" being the son of an immigrant to Liberia. So, to ensuresupport onother issues, we gave up that battle.Shortly thereafter, in my African Law class at the LouiseArthur GrimesSchool of Law, I took it as the subject of the required 30-pagebrief on atopic of African Law. The insights gained from readings andinterviews onthis topic were an eye opener - to say the least. It remindedme of mystudies of trial by ordeal, slavery, cannibalism and apatheid.And howthose too found justifications in religious zealotry , culturaltraditionsand social dogma. But, the poignant impact of this practice wassummed upin one look at a picture showing the utter shock and hurt inthe eyes of alittle girl, from something so life changing (yet avoidable)having beendone to her body, without her consent. Worse still, the pictureshowedthis been done to her body at the urging of her family. Whatmere wordswould ever be sufficient to justify such suffering on herinnocence? Likeother, I too wonder what manner of man would wish suchsufferring upon hisdaughter in the name of cultural tradition?Given the emotive nature spured by any talk of banning thispractice, apublic debate would provide the chance for better c ulturalunderstandingsand perhaps, eventually, some concensus on how we as a peoplewould addressthis intractable cultural practice. Moreover, without publicdebate, thisissue has the potential risk of being highjacked by those whowould preachtribalism disguised as nationalism. Yet, regardless of all thetalking,cutting-ups and carrying-ons (ironically being done mostly bymen), clearlythis is one of those "when-chicken- is-white, it-is-white"issues. And whileit may linger long; die it must. This practice is a voilationof a littlegirl's inner child, with profound impact on her life.Best regards,Archie B.----- Message from Archie Bernard <mailto:bernard1@un.org> on Tue, 3 Jun 200807:03:39 +0000 -----To: mailto:OnLiberianMedium@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [OnLiberianMedium] Abortion Vs Female Circumcision (See attached file: pic01749.gif) (See attached file: pic17198.gif)
